IRC developer meeting — 2011 February 28

## Topic: GIMP developer meeting, 22:00 CET (GMT+1) February 28th 2011 | Agenda: http://gimp-wiki.who.ee/index.php/Hacking:Dev_Meeting_28_Feb_2011 | THIS MEETING IS BEING LOGGED!

<lightningismyname> Let's start :) Please take a look at the Agenda, as pointed by the topic, and read it
<lightningismyname> The most burning issue for todays meeting, is potentially GSoC this year
 We have 10 days to apply, and we still don't have an organized ideas list or a mentors list
 Do we want to participate?
<xsdg> I would suggest that the bigger issue is one of overall organization, and that the GSoC issues and the release issues are a consequence of that
<lightningismyname> xsdg, you are probably right, but I don't know if we have time to fix all these before the application deadline
<xsdg> As far as GSoC itself, if mentors want to step forward, great.  I have neither the knowledge nor the time.  I'm not sure there's anything non-mentors can really do about it
 we could potentially lower the bar for mentoring, but that's probably not such a great idea.  It'd probably be more valuable (if mentors don't step forward) to deal with the higher-level issues and think about it again next year
<lightningismyname> mitch, I know you offered to mentor "since you do it anyway". Now, is it serious and you have time, or was that just a cynical comment?
<mitch> i meant it, but i'm not going to mentor a particular student
 i will help when i'm on irc
 mitch gives channel operator status to Mikachu
<mitch> we should hear schumaml on that issue, he's been doing gsoc orga all the years
<lightningismyname> schumaml - your opinion?
<schumaml> I won't force anyone to become a mentor
<mitch> so my estimate is that if nobody steps up and organizes things, gsoc this year will not happen
<schumaml> if some of the previous mentors want to do it again, then I'll take care of the orga again
<mitch> Alexia wanted to mentor again afail
<lightningismyname> schumaml, does GSoC require specific mentors for each project, or can we have general mentors?
<mitch> specific mentors
<schumaml> each student is assigned one mentor
<schumaml> and this mentor is responsible for all administrative stuff concerning that one student
 e.g. evaluations
<lightningismyname> Taking a look at the list of projects, does anyone have something which is urgent and GSoC could probably help more than regular development?
<lightningismyname> I.e. is there something a student can take care of which is critical?
<schumaml> should we decide not to apply as an org, then mentors could approach gnome ans ask to mentor gimp or gegl-related tasks
<mitch> not really, otherwise it wouldn't be critical :)
<guiguru_> (switching machine)
<lightningismyname> Let's jump for a second - what's on the top of the todo list?
 Except for fixing bugs
<mitch> generally getting 2.8 out
<lightningismyname> I can't see a clear roadmap anywhere, and that prevents me from knowing what to work on
<schumaml> I'd like to have an auto-updating main website again
<mitch> schumaml: you just volunteered
<enselic> we should switch to a wiki so it's not a big project to keep the website up to date
<lightningismyname> I volunteer to try and do website fixes if needed, the question is what do we want from auto-updating website?
<mitch> a wiki for the main site?
<lightningismyname> It was discussed previously today to point wiki.gimp.org at alexia's wiki. Any objections?
<enselic> most parts of the main site
<mitch> i don't think so, both for reasons of load and security, as pointed out on the list
<enselic> not news for example
<mitch> LightningIsMyName: not from me
<schumaml> I think Alexia got a point about not introducing dynamic systems to www.gimp.org
<enselic> we could have non-free-for-all registration
<mitch> Enselic: giving out accounts is a prerequisite
<lightningismyname> The registration to alexia's wiki is aprooved only by me and her, to avoid spam
<mitch> no self registration
<schumaml> we discussed that earlier today - as long as there is any script involved, the site is exploitable
<enselic> LightningIsMyName: could I get an account?
<lightningismyname> Each dev who creates an account (see the topic) and email me, will get an editing permission on the wiki
<schumaml> and believe me, www.gimp.org would be a priority one target
<lightningismyname> who has the control over the domain names?
<mitch> snorfle
<lightningismyname> snorfle?
<mitch> shawn admunson(?)
* Kevin waves hello
<mitch> so let's focus in wgo for a moment
 schumaml: since you see it as priority, what about mailing sven about an account, and simply fixing it? sven doesn't have the time
<schumaml> I don't know what is missing, all I know is that commits to gimp-web aren't pulled and shown within minutes
 I don't know if I can fix it, but I'
<kevin> Sounds like you need Jenkins for the wgo
<schumaml> ll try to do this
<mitch> i don't know either, but sven can point you to a starting point
<lightningismyname> I volunteer to try and help on that, if I'll have an account on gimp.org
<mitch> fine with me
<mitch> so action #1: schumaml and LightningIsMyName fix wgo?
<lightningismyname> fine with me
<schumaml> yes
<kevin> If there is a script to build the wgo pages from a repo it just needs to be run by a cron job as a simple way to fix the problem.
<lightningismyname> question 2: who can request re-direction of wiki.gimp.org to alexia's wiki?
<mitch> i think the problem was commit hooks or something that would send a mail from the old svn server to foo and then bar would happen
<kevin> mitch: That would be the better way instead of a cron job
<mitch> Kevin: that's how it worked before
* LightningIsMyName points back at redirecting wiki.gimp.org
<mitch> LightningIsMyName: ideally, that wiki would be moved to the machine gimp.org runs on
<schumaml> I think we can add a daily cron job as a fallback at least
<kevin> who currently owns/maintains the DNS entries for g.o?
<mitch> it's really big enough
 Kevin: as said, snorfle
<lightningismyname> didn't we just say we don't want that for security reasons?
<mitch> LightningIsMyName: it could run in a chroot, or a vm, as sven said
<lightningismyname> so we'll need someone who can mess with servers more than I know to do that
<schumaml> I guess we need emergency response plans anyway?
<lightningismyname> unless we have someone who volunteers to do that, that's ain't practical
<mitch> but for the time being, a redirect would be better than the current situation
<lightningismyname> agree
<enselic> +1
<schumaml> i.e. what to do if somethings seems fishy with any gimp.org?
<enselic> mitch: can you talk to snorfle about that?
<kevin> I have no problem working on servers
 snorfle?
<enselic> Kevin: gimp.org DNS admin
<xsdg> Kevin: snorfle is a person
<pippin> Shawn Amundson?
<mitch> Enselic: sure, if alexia provides me with details, i'll take care of that
<mitch> action #2: Alexia and mitch take care of redirecting wiki.gimp.org
 pippin: precisely
<lightningismyname> mitch, the link is at the topic, alexia is back, just joined #gimp
<kevin> yes, I see Shawn. Snorfle has some interesting meanings in the Urban dictionary
<enselic> Ok, next topic "Make a roadmap on the official wiki"
<lightningismyname> Big topic
<enselic> I can take care of that
 I just need an account
<lightningismyname> we first of all need 2.8 goals asap
 Enselic, create one now, I'll give your permissions
<enselic> that's easy, look at https://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?product=GIMP&amp;bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&amp;bug_status=NEW&amp;bug_status=ASSIGNED&amp;bug_status=REOPENED⌖_milestone=2.8 and work on what's important ;)
<mitch> LightningIsMyName: that would basically be "fix all milestome bugs" and "clean up open ends"
<mitch> it's not *that* much to do actually
<lightningismyname> guiguru, are you here? Some bugs there are dependant on you
<guiguru> I guess so
<enselic> LightningIsMyName: how do I register?
<lightningismyname> guiguru: what are the chances we can start seeing specs soon?
 Enselic, one sec
<enselic> LightningIsMyName: specs are not blocking us, we'll do our best if we don't get specs
<enselic> we can't wait forever
 but we can fix things afterwards forever
<lightningismyname> Enselic, http://gimp-wiki.who.ee/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&amp;type=signup
<guiguru> LightningIsMyName: high
<mitch> and spec &lt;-&gt; impl is always a loop, so just get started
<kevin> Apart from SF deprecation issues, there are two minor enhancements it would be nice to have in there before 2.8 (getenv and create a directory procedures)
<enselic> LightningIsMyName: priv msg
<xsdg> Enselic: are the priorities on that list accurate?
<enselic> xsdg: no
<xsdg> Enselic: how hard would it be for them to become accurate?
 that would be a big help, I think
<mitch> bugzilla priorities are noise only for the most part
<xsdg> (I've certainly looked at that list and not known what to focus on)
<enselic> xsdg: you can pick any of them
<mitch> xsdg: just pick *any* bug that seems doable
<xsdg> are they all 2.8 blockers?
<mitch> even non-milestone bugs, as long as the patch fixes something :)
<enselic> no, some of them we will ship without
<xsdg> Enselic: it would be useful to know the difference between the two classes, then
<enselic> I'm going to clean that list up once I get my site up and running
<kevin> xsdg: The higher priority ones would be ones with 2.8 as their target milestone
<xsdg> Kevin: all of the things on that list are milestone 2.8
* LightningIsMyName points at "Random thought: Add an option to support gegl plugins with a gui nicely, for 2.8, so that users will start developing plugins for 3.0 in GEGL?"
<kevin> I'm not sure which list you are looking at
<lightningismyname> is this practical?
<kevin> Oh, that list.
<mitch> and really, evetybody can help by simply subscribing to bugmail and at least *triaging* new bugs
<enselic> action #3, Enselic makes a draft of a GIMP roadmap and sends to gimp-developer
<mitch> come on guys, it's not that hard
<enselic> next item on the agenda: "Try and decide on clear release policy for beta builds"
<kevin> Sure. Just mark them all as RESOLVED, WONTFIX  ;-)
<xsdg> mitch, Enselic: if our first goal is to get 2.8 out the door, we need to focus on the things which will allow us to accomplish that
<mitch> how did that agenda point come up?
<pippin> LightningIsMyName: that is part of the random non-roadmap which is http://gegl.org/contribute.html
<enselic> I don't know, but I think we should have nightly binary builds so we don't need to worry about that
<mitch> oh "beta build" is what we call a devel release now
<xsdg> mitch: regarding subscribing to bugmail, would be good for there to be a way for people to learn about that
<enselic> we have nightly tarball builds, it's not that hard to make binary builds from that
<mitch> i can make one easily within the next 2 weeks or so
 now that gegl is out
<lightningismyname> I can have nightly builds of gtk+babl+gegl, but I need some FTP to host them
 +gimp
<mitch> Enselic: imho that can exist and is good, but advertizing it too much will feed the trolls
<enselic> LightningIsMyName: host them here ftp://gimptest.flamingtext.com/pub/nightly-tarballs/
<schumaml> how will we deal with nightly builds in bugzilla?
<enselic> mitch: "feed the trolls"?
 how?
<lightningismyname> Enselic, need to check with ftcameron. I'll email him to see it's OK
<mitch> a lot of "testing" from the clueless, and even more useless bugs
<enselic> LightningIsMyName: you don't need to, I am admin on that machine
<xsdg> schumaml: I think, possibly as a separate action item somewhere, we need to spend a bit more time making bugzilla more useful
<schumaml> bug reported against 2.7.x-git20110316
<mitch> schumaml: precisely
<enselic> mitch: or more useful bugs
<xsdg> schumaml: that would likely include updating the templates, making sure the defaults are useful, and not letting people edit the ones they tend to enter incorrectly
<mitch> Enselic: nobody is even triaging new bugs around here
 so action 3: everybody subscribe to bug mail and TRIAGE BUGS
<michaelgr> If I may interject, nightly builds might also attract developers, if you advertise it.
<enselic> it's not that important, is it?
<xsdg> mitch: are there any guidelines for triaging bugs?
 Enselic: "it" -&gt; ???
<mitch> xsdg: look at them, understand them, judge them
 Enselic: triaging bugs?
<xsdg> mitch: what does that mean?
<enselic> unimportant bugs that is
<kevin> xsdg: Read them, does it make sense, can the problem be reproduced, does it need more input from reporter
<schumaml> xsdg: it's not that hard, most are either reproducable or needinfo
<lightningismyname> I have a document on making useful bug reports, is it possible to link to it in the submission form
 ?
<mikachu> Enselic: deciding which are important == triaging :)
<enselic> I ignore == I think it's not important
<schumaml> or duplicates
 lots of duplicates
<mitch> xsdg: check for duplicates, ask questions and set to NEEDINFO, close useless crap right away
<xsdg> mitch, Kevin, schumaml: that's more than I knew 10 minutes ago.  As obvious as this may seem, these instructions need to go somewhere.
<kevin> Right. also checking if bug has already been reported.
<xsdg> it doesn't help if they only exist in your heads
<schumaml> xsdg: gnome has bug triaging guidelines
<jonnor> gnome should have general documentation for triaging available
<kevin> If a patch has been supplied, does it look right, does it apply to the current (git master) source tree.
<mitch> xsdg: get a wiki account and start a page :)
<enselic> anyway.... action #4: mitch, make a development release soon
<mitch> Enselic: fine with me
<xsdg> mitch: I'm currently at work; not going to happen
<enselic> mitch:
 mitch: thanks
 next item on the agenda "Schedule meetings?"
<lightningismyname> Enselic, sure! I want to learn to make a release, I'm going to be increasingly active this year
<mitch> LightningIsMyName: there is a release-howto in devel-docs
<lightningismyname> The agenda isn't exactly ordered
<kevin> LightningIsMyName: make distcheck is a start
<lightningismyname> I think there are some other things which should be discussed
<enselic> make distcheck is run each night...
<schumaml> meetings? yes. late, like 10pm. interval?
<lightningismyname> the question is if we want to get techinical today or some other time?
<mitch> Enselic: action #5: enselic to finally return ;)
<lightningismyname> I think that a bi-weekly meeting cycle would be productive
<enselic> I'm afraid my girlfriend has infected my mind, I see a future of less GIMP activity :/
<mitch> LightningIsMyName: you are more than welcome to push that
<enselic> but it's a good kind of infection
<lightningismyname> mitch - I am trying :)
<enselic> I like being infected
<mitch> Enselic: turn her into a hacker
<schumaml> mitch: haeckse
<enselic> meeting: not that often, every 2 months?
<kevin> Definitely a good type of infection to have
<lightningismyname> Also, I'm going to add another topic which I saw in comments of some users
 They said we should sort of advertise gimp, by promoting the new features officially instead of just developer blogs
<schumaml> two months is too long, imo
<kevin> if you want regular meetings someone will have to set an agenda for the meetiings
* pippin would like to have the meetings in #gimp instead of here
<mitch> LightningIsMyName: if wgo was working, much of that would happen
<lightningismyname> show more activity on the main website, possibly with features videos, to attract devs
<mitch> pippin: i disagree
<xsdg> Let's all pause; I think everyone's talking about a different thing
 What are we discussing right now?
<enselic> pippin just want the pleasure of telling people to shut up
<mitch> heh
<enselic> right now the topic is "Schedule meetings?"
<lightningismyname> Boys, calm down ;) we were talking about scheduling meetings
<mitch> LightningIsMyName: you seem to do a pretty good job, just go ahead with regular meetings
<enselic> mitch: +1
* pippin already has &gt;30 tabs in his irc client, would prefer not to have more
<mikachu> you can close this one soon
<kevin> 30??
<lightningismyname> We need to get some technical meetings, and not just one like these
* LightningIsMyName reminds people to stay on topic
<lightningismyname> some people objected the recent PDB refactors
 and there are some more changes that need to be dicussed
<schumaml> technical meetings can be done by groups of interested people
<mitch> LightningIsMyName: this is a good start already, we can'T get technical with hald our infrastructure down
<enselic> action #6: LightningIsMyName takes care of next meeting
<pippin> I like how the blenders devs hijack their regular channel, use /topic to force people staying on topic stating which part of the agenda they are on, etc. :)
<mitch> half*
 pippin: offtopic
<kevin> :-)
<pippin> mitch: it is on topic on the topic of scheduling meetings
<lightningismyname> action #7: setting pages to discuss changes in different topics
<enselic> next item on agenda: "Anything else? "
<prokoudine_> LightningIsMyName, promoting features officially is not a problem
<lightningismyname> prokoudine_, you volunteer?
<prokoudine_> LightningIsMyName, I write news for gimp.org anyway
<lightningismyname> good to know - the news are anonymous :)
<mitch> LightningIsMyName: will you put the log and the collected actions up in the wiki?
<lightningismyname> yes. btw, we still haven't finished one topic
<kevin> Are you only going to promote new features after they are complete?
<mitch> i know :)
<lightningismyname> We didn't decide a thing about GSoC
<lightningismyname> do we apply this year for something?
 I agree to be a student, and there will be probably many other applications
 there will be student interest, so it's a shame to miss the coding work
<prokoudine_> LightningIsMyName, and will you mentor yourself? :)
* pippin does not want to have direct responsibility of any student, wbut will aid in helping any strudent working on gegl or gegl related projects
<schumaml> Alexia would mentor, I guess
 Kevin ketas-wi
<lightningismyname> ketas-wi, you are Alexia, right?
<mitch> LightningIsMyName: i would mentor you :) but not some random fool
<schumaml> I've asked Akkana as well, she could do a beginner task provided that it will end up in gimp if finished
<prokoudine_> LightningIsMyName, he is not
<gwidion> btw, sorry for last years gsoc.
<kevin> I took myself off the mentor list but I could sign up again if there was something I might be able to help with. Last couple of years there hasn't been.
<prokoudine_> gwidion, just finish the project, will you? :)
<gwidion> my student would do even less things than what i 'd  ask her
<mitch> LightningIsMyName: which would be self-mentring, but google's formalities followed, and i'd be around for any questions of course
<lightningismyname> is there any project which we want to feed me/some-other-jobless-student for the summer?
<kevin> Rewrite gimp-perl  :-)
<pippin> LightningIsMyName: see http://gegl.org/contribute.html
<mitch> fix pygimp
<jonnor> If Enselic does not expect to find more time for gimp dev soon, having someone else work on single-window mode is pretty critical for 2.8
<lightningismyname> jonnor, you are very right about that
<jonnor> it is afaik, the one big thing blocking it
<ankh> time-critical things have not been good for gsoc projects in the past
<mitch> jonnor: i'm afraid that particular job will stick with me anyway
<ankh> jonnor: that and more-than-8-bits
<jonnor> Ankh: that is not for 2.8?
<schumaml> can we release 2.8 with gtk+ 2.x at all?
<mitch> Ankh: that's not a gcos project
<lightningismyname> Anything potentially 3.0 targeted, that will not need re-writing later?
<xsdg> Question: do we have a time goal for shipping 2.8?  I would say "december 31, 2011 at the very latest"
<mitch> gsoc
<ankh> mitch: agreed
<kevin> mitch: Anything that can be taken off your plate and pushed to someone else to free up your time for SWM?
<mitch> so, i have a general issue now that 3.0 came up
<ankh> neither swm nor ?8bit is gsoc I fear
<mitch> i figured that we will likely *never* get proper xinput back with gtk 2.x
 so might i suggest something:
<schumaml> and tablet support is broken on windows, too
<mitch> 2.x -&gt; 3.x migration:
<kevin> I'm also curious why ruler widgets were removed from gtk
<gwidion> prokoudine_: My intentio is to "finish" the other Gsoc - jsut gimp python which was never integrated into trunk.
<mitch> - deprecate as much as humanly possible in the 2.x api and replace it by stuff that is 3.x-able
<enselic> xsdg: we don't know, but will know within a few months
<mitch> - after 2.8 is out, have a short devel cycle
<prokoudine_> gwidion, that's what I was referring to -- python project
<carol> not /src/gimp/gkt+ like gap and ffmpeg? moving targets and all....
<mitch> - gfet 3.0 out
<lightningismyname> schumaml, does a ORG need to supply a list of projects in his application? If so, does google choose between these, or the ORG?
<pippin> LightningIsMyName: the _student_ has to propose his own project, potentially inspired by the orgs list
<xsdg> Enselic: I would suggest that we set a hard deadline sometime, and commit to shipping by that date.  Otherwise we end up having this discussion next March
<enselic> xsdg: that's not going to work
<schumaml> mitch: so 3.0 would be just the gtk+ change?
<kevin> Part of the release date issue is having a defined set of things to work on and getting those things done.
<mitch> schumaml: plus really nicely working tablet hotplug and stuff
 schumaml: and it's a big change
<lightningismyname> schumaml, would you take care of our GSoC application this year? I'll organize a list of projects, and I'll put it on for review by the devs? Link will be on the mailing list tomorrow
<schumaml> s/just //
<lightningismyname> btw, all devs that want a wiki account, PM me a username and an email
<xsdg> Enselic: Suppose that GIMP hadn't advanced March of next year.  Should we not release the stuff that's already done by that point?
<xsdg> Enselic: what's in git already has value over the latest thing that's been released
 (that is, excluding dev releeases)
<xsdg> Enselic: do we want people to sit on 2.6 forever?
<kevin> oh, well.
 I still have 2.6 on my machine.
<schumaml> xsdg: if they need tablet support, then probably yes
<enselic> xsdg: the harm is done, people expect swm, we will get a lot of badwill if we ship without
<mitch> xsdg: then just get started doing some hacks, roadmaps and hard dates don't help much on their own
<gwidion> shure
<xsdg> Enselic: is that worth people sitting on 2.6 for another year?
<lightningismyname> I want to see 2.8 out soon, it's pretty stable at least for my everyday workflow. Better release and stop blocking ourselves, than blocking ourselves and the users
 So it will a bit incomplete - legitimate for an end of cycle product
<xsdg> mitch: I've been on a project that died because they couldn't release (geeqie).  I'm hoping it doesn't happen to gimp
<pippin> Enselic: you just have to take a week off from work and emma, and hide in a rødmalt stuga...
<prokoudine_> Enselic, what is exactly blocking simple swm?
<kevin> One user reported working in SWM mode and felt it was working ok.
<schumaml> LightningIsMyName: yes, please collect a list of projects
<prokoudine_> Enselic, without image parade, I mean
<enselic> see milestoned bugs...
<lightningismyname> prokoudine_, it's not session managed
<schumaml> LightningIsMyName: google uses this to judge whether an org is ready for gsoc
<prokoudine_> LightningIsMyName, any estimations time-wise?
<mitch> prokoudine_: what is the problem about image parade? i could hack that in one week
<prokoudine_> mitch, no spec?
<kevin> image parade?
<mitch> prokoudine_: not a problem, i have a mind
<prokoudine_> mitch, then go for it? :)
<xsdg> mitch: this is why we need priorities
<kevin> mitch is supposed to be working on SWM  ;-)
<prokoudine_> that will leave us only broken tablets
<mitch> prokoudine_: if you noticed, i'm already the main committer and my time is limited ;)
<prokoudine_> mitch, I have :) I track it
* pippin thinks mitch should focus on killing off 8bit :P
<mitch> and other swm things are far worse
<lightningismyname> action #8: LightningIsMyName gets a list of projects on the wiki by tomorrow, developers review the ideas by email or by commenting on the wiki. Saturday is hard dead line for finalizing the project list
<schumaml> do we have any unassigned action items?
<mitch> pippin: irrelevant for 2.8
<enselic> mitch: btw, at some point you need to stop rebasing the gtk3 branch and merge master to it instead
 regularly
<pippin> "gimp developer(s) continue to ignore higher bitdepths" ;)
<mitch> Enselic: clearly not
* LightningIsMyName points at action #8
<mikachu> i don't think that's a meeting topic
<xsdg> schumaml: I would suggest that we have people initially prioritize things on the 2.8 milestone
<mitch> i want a sane history
<enselic> mitch: how are more than you supposed to be able to work on it then?
<gwidion> pippin: "which sounds better than gimp developers continue not releasing"
<xsdg> schumaml: I'm willing to help with that, but I don't feel I know enough to pass judgment on _all_ of those bugs
<gwidion> unfortunatelly
<mitch> Enselic: i don't see anyone even trying ot
 it
<lightningismyname> any devs will be willing to review the idea list with me?
<enselic> mitch: no one can until you stop rebasing :)
<mitch> Enselic: and it's close to done anyway
<pippin> 60min since meeting start, where in the agenda are we by now?
<xsdg> that said, I need to run. back in a bit
<lightningismyname> pippin, sort of finished :P
<enselic> mitch: do we share the same definition of "done"?
 done to me means it's ready to be merged to git master and released
<mitch> Enselic: done as in "works better than master" &lt;- good enough? :)
<enselic> if there are no known regressions, than it's good enough
 then*
<mitch> there are missing plugins still
 but Mikachu is very helpful there
<mikachu> is neo still working on gfig?
<mitch> Mikachu: damn good question
* Enselic -&gt; bed
<lightningismyname> Summarizing the list of actions:
 action #1: schumaml and LightningIsMyName fix wgo?
 action #2: Alexia and mitch take care of redirecting wiki.gimp.org
 action #3, Enselic makes a draft of a GIMP roadmap and sends to gimp-developer
<ankh> neither swm nor ?8bit is gsoc I fear
 *8
 `
<lightningismyname> action 4: everybody subscribe to bug mail and TRIAGE BUGS
  anyway.... action #4: mitch, make a development release soo
 action #6: LightningIsMyName takes care of next meeting
 action #7: setting pages to discuss changes in different topics
 action #8: LightningIsMyName gets a list of projects on the wiki by
  action #8: LightningIsMyName gets a list of projects on the wiki by tomorrow, developers review the ideas by email or by commenting on the wiki. Saturday is hard dead line for finalizing the project list
<mitch> very nice
<mikachu> you missed five
<prokoudine_> LightningIsMyName, what happened to 5?
<mikachu> LightningIsMyName: if i can help with some git thing wrt updating the web site, just ask
<lightningismyname> action #9: all devs PM me username and password
 sorry, an email
 not a password
 MikeM Mikachu
 Mikachu, thanks :)
<kevin> prokoudine_: It was the second #4?
<mitch> LightningIsMyName: thanks for taking care of meeting stuff!
<lightningismyname> mitch, no problem :) I just hope next time we get actual stuff done in addition to talking :)
 schumaml, and everyone, I'll email the project list page to the dev-mail-list, people should review the list!
<kevin> Is there an overall tracking bug for SWM stuff?
<bat`o> is cage tool in 2.8 or not a topic that's worth to discuss ?
<lightningismyname> There will be a wiki page for each important milestone, and I'll bug devs to fill the pages on their stuff
<mitch> Bat`O: of course it will be in 2.8
<bat`o> \o/
<xsdg> kevin, I don't really think so
<mitch> Bat`O: what about showing your changes done since it was merged?
* Bat`O need to get back to work
<xsdg> kevin, maybe just "do SWM", but certainly nothing beyond that
<bat`o> mitch: you mean, merge my branch to master ?
<lightningismyname> Anyone has any objection to lock the official meeting?
<mitch> Bat`O: no, getting it past my evil review
<kevin> I see 5 reports re: SWM
<bat`o> i'm not against
 but there is still a bad bug i need to kill
<xsdg> kevin, I could be wrong :o)
<mitch> i want one patch to try to apply
<xsdg> It'd be awesome if I were
<mitch> one patch where i can clearly see the changes, not some evil git diff against a non-rebased branch
<kevin> xsdg: I think you might be right that there isn't a tracking bug.